Zaostritev EU zakonodaje o orožju

[misty]

Če tole leti name, naj še enkrat napišem "mojo taktiko".

Ozaveščat folk okoli sebe! Na miren, nevsivljiv način, skozi vsakdanje pogovore. Ljudi strelstvo zanima, pa večina niti ne upa vprašat oz. načet pogovora o tem. Več bo strelcev, več bo simpatizerjev, manj bo EK lahko dosegla.

Vicky je IMO zgolj igralka na odru EK. V tej igri EK ne moremo premagati. EK bo skupaj s podrepniki to farso peljala do konca. Takrat pa nas mora biti čimveč, da jim bomo na miren način lahko sporočili, da pravice do orožja ne damo. 

In to je daleč od negativizma. Če bi razmišljal negativno, ne bi nabavljal novih kosov. Pa znebil bi se kosov, vpisanih pod B7. Ko smo že pri tem, ne verjamem da je v Slo samo 300 inu nekaj kosov kategorije B7. Obstajajo kje uradne evidence?

[MiHec]

Tu ne gre za število kosov. Gre za princip.
Torej, danes adijo B7, jutri adijo B1.

Kako se to konča se lahko vidi v Angliji.

[JRC]

Brez Vicky Ford, bi bila direktiva ze sprejeta.
Najvecji problem je Svet Evrope, kjer bo 28 ministrov z notranje zadeve podprlo Junckerja.
Nase upanje so samo evroposlanci.

[Kristian]

... Ko smo že pri tem, ne verjamem da je v Slo samo 300 inu nekaj kosov kategorije B7. Obstajajo kje uradne evidence?

Natančno 368 kosov naj bi bilo registrirano v kategoriji B7. Tako informacijo je podal državni sekretar na MNZ, Andrej Špenga.

[Ales]

Vse bolj je jasno, da je edina dolgoročna rešitev (pa še zdaleč na samo zaradi orožne zakonodaje) izstop iz EU in nova zveza z višegrajci...

Kdo jih bo financiral , višjegrajci iz Eu dobijo ene 30 miljard eur letno ,najbolj zagreti in naduti Poljaki imajo sploh veliko pipco 16+ Miljard eur letno  + 2-3 mio gastabeiterjev v EU.  Eu bo do 2020 Poljski šenkala 230 miljard Eur ,brez tega bi bila to taka vukojebina kot Ukrajina

Še vsakega so na določeni točki (izjema mogoče severna koreja) nehal financirat, še jugi so zahodni imperialisti nehali dajat keš...kapitalistom je cilj razviti vzhod do te mere, da bodo lahko 'črpali' iz njega...no na tej točki bomo pa rekli EU, vu papa adijo pa bene valete.

[JRC]

Najnovejse:
https://firearms-united.com/2016/12/13/l...rliaments/

[kimber]

Tehničen know-out.
Problematične niso polavtomatske puške, ampak vse puške, če je zraven nabojnik nad 10 nabojev.
Problematične so pištole,  če je zraven nabojnik nad 20 nabojev.
Lokalni fašisti so lahko bolj prohibicionistični.

[ales1a]

Zdravo! 

kolikor berem razne pogovore uradnikov ali pa predstavnikov strelcov je za njih kategorija B7 enaka kategoriji B4, kar piše tudi v tem pismu: 
"...and Category A7 “Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms
...There is experience that categorising items based on the subjectivity of “resemblance” creates legal uncertainty."
 Po mojem, če bodo šli v premik kategorije B7 v A7 bo padla zraven tudi B4.


Je pa po tem kar je tukaj napisano, orožje B4/B7 pade v A7 samo takrat ko ima vstavljen nabojnik s kapaciteto več kot 10 nabojev:
"Instead of using “resemblance” criteria both Parliament and Council proposed to add to Category A semi-automatic centre-fire firearms when a high-capacity loading device is fitted. 
The categorisation applies when the firearm and magazine is in combination together, and does not depend merely on whether the firearms is capable of having a higher capacity magazine inserted. This has been made explicit in the text for adoption."

Drugače ja pa Vicky Ford kar aktivna na svojem profilu na facebooku, kjer odgovarja na vprašanja in sodeluje v debatah. Nekje teden nazaj ji je bilo zastavljeno vprašanje kdaj bi bilo orožje (v odvisnosti z visokokapacitivnimi nabojniki) B4/B7 premeščeno v A7. Takrat še ni znala odgovorit (ali kadar imamo oboje skupaj, ali kadar posedujemo oboje, ali kadar je nabojnik vstavljen v orožje - pa potem spet ali je lahko prazen ali poln).


Drugače se mi pa zdi številka 360 kosov B7 nizka, če me spomin ne vara sem pri pogovoru z Rebcem zasledil, da je prodal 70 kosov SDM AK (predvidevam, da ne prodaja veliko v tujino). Pa tudi če je to realna številka bi bilo po mojem mnenju zraven šteti še B4, ker smo skupaj v istem "zosu". Skupno pa zna biti številka nekajkrat večja.

Lep pozdrav,
Aleš

[Krgolob]

Tole je slabo :( Za lažjo predstavo kratek povzetek:

Vse kar je predelano iz avtomatskega na polavtomatsko, bo prepovedano oziroma A6. Beri vse kar je predelano in je trenutno v B7, B4 in tudi B1!

Vse puške z vstavljenim nabojnikom 10+ in pištole z 20+ so prepovedane oziroma A7.

Nabojnike 10+ (20+ za pištole) boš lahko kupil samo, če imaš dovoljenje za A7. Če te zalotijo, da imaš doma nabojnik 10+ (20+) še od prej, ti poberejo vse, ker imaš doma prepovedano kategorijo A7.

Posamezna država ima MOŽNOST dovoliti dedovanje ter (od)prodajo orožja A6/7, ni pa to nujno.

Posamezna država ima MOŽNOST dovoliti izjeme za športne strelce, ni pa to nujno.

Zdravniški pregledi se vsaj za nas ne bi spremenili, saj imamo že sedaj bolj oster zakon.

Najbrž ni potrebno še enkrat omeniti da je ta Direktiva butasta do amena. V čem je nekdo z 11-strelnim nabojnikom bolj nevaren od nekoga z 9-strelnim? Ali pa nekdo z uradno CIP-iranim škorpijonom od nekoga z desert eaglom? Najbolj bomo na udaru vsi tisti, ki smo iz bolj ali manj sentimentalnih ali finančnih razlogov kupili rabljeno orožje pretežno vzhodnega bloka, ki je praktično edino predelano iz avtomatskega :(.

[Matej045]

Iz zadnjega pisma V. Ford. članom parlamenta glede kategorije A6 - pogajalci, ki predstavljajo večino v parlamentu so se strinjali, da gre polavtomatsko orožje, ki je bilo predelano iz avtomatskega, v kategorijo A. Dodajo se novi postopki za avtorizacijo, ki omogočajo rezervistom, športnim strelcem in drugim osebam s posebnimi dovoljenji, da posedujejo to orožje, pri čemer je to (ali lahko posedujejo to orožje) prepuščeno posameznim državam članicam EU. Dodatno se doda klavzula, po kateri lahko obstoječi lastniki še naprej imajo, prenašajo, dedujejo ali prodajo to orožje osebam, ki imajo ustrezno dovoljenje, to pa je (ponovno) prepuščeno posameznim državam članicam EU.

Iz navedenega povsem jasno sledi prepoved orožja, ki je bilo predelano iz avtomatskega v polavtomatsko - premik iz B v A kategorijo, posamezna država članica EU pa bo, v kolikor bo to želela, lahko dovolila določenim osebam, da kupijo to orožje in da ga obstoječi lastniki obdržijo, prenašajo, dedujejo ali prodajo. Zgolj od dobre volje posamezne države oz. oblasti bo tako odvisno, kaj se bo zgodilo s tem orožjem in kakšno zakonodajo bo v zvezi s tem sprejela, vendar je jasno nakazano oz. "napisano med vrsticami", kakšna je želja EU glede tega orožja - prepoved tega orožja in odvzem obstoječim lastnikom, seveda, če bo to sprejeto. Dvomim, da je Slovenija pripravljena dajati strelcem kakšne izjeme glede tega, bolj verjetno je, da bo oblast  sledila jasnemu namigu v direktivi, da to orožje brez izjem prepovejo.

[Kristian]

Cenjeni kolegi, zadnja dva posta bi lahko uvrstili v rubriko "Dobro jutro, Slovenija". O tem že ves čas govorimo, pa si nekateri vztrajno dopovedujejo, da to pa že ne more biti tako...

[Uroš Palhartinger]

http://www.o-sta.com/msg.php?t=0&id=18917

[mr.T]

Ovinkov do cilja ,ki ga imajo je kar dosti , na svetu ministrov bodo precej enostano nabrali podporo ki jo rabijo.

Pridobljene pravice ? ah dejte no v Nemčiji je zdaj ilegalno vse orožje, ki ga niso prijavili pa je bilo prej v prosti prodaji nekaj mio kosov, podobno v Avstriji kjer si včasih pump šrotflinto lahko kupil zraven štruce kruha zdaj vse regulirano etc. pa tudi drugače, če ne bi bil interes prepoved potem ne bi sili v A kategorijo . Kot je omenil Kristian ,je čisto logično ,da bi potem za A7 imeli isti standard kot zibratelji(tehnično varovan prostor hrambe ,pa inšpekcijske obiske) ,v glavnem načinov kako te spravit ob veselje je zadost, da ne rabijo neposredno ravno pobrat B7.


Je pa pri B1 očitno dosti $$$$ kapnilo za lobiranje saj omejitev na 20strelni nabojnike sploh ni omejitev saj ga nobena pištola nima standard, pri 10 za puško pa je obratno saj skoraj ni 10 strelnih magazinov za Ar15,10,AK,Vzje
Upam ,da se Firearms united malce pohvali z sponzorju tako, da se ve čigavih krepel ni za kupovat ker jim je škoda par centov za tak namen.

[dani_79]

Tale zadeva je bil dober trening za EU da vidi kako šibki so lastniki orožja... od sebe razen neki malega nepomembnih pritiskov nis(m)o dali nič... zadeva bo gladko omejila uporabo polavtomatskih pušk na minimum (posledično tudi lastništvo) v naslednjem krogu pa predvidevam omejitev kalibrov tudi pri ostalem orožju... za šport 22lr in zračnice... to je prihodnost športnega streljanja. Kar je še bolj pomembno zadeva še lepo zgleda... saj vsi vseskozi jamramo kaj nam bo EU pravila postavljal ne pa naša država... ta direktiva bo tako lepo "odprta" da bodo države same določale uporabo in izjeme in ni nobenega dvoma in ni niti malo težko ugotoviti kakšne bodo razlike v teh "izjemah" med državami... kako bodo ravnali eni Finci ipd. ali pa eni Slovenci... EU poslanci so se s tem pokrili, saj bodo izglasovali, da smo lahko izjema, domači pa bodo intrepetirali tako da izjem ne bo... vse ostalo pa se izgubilo u magli...

[Marks]

konec je z levimi neblozami. to sem dokončno dojel učiraj. smo že na desnem ovinku.

tko da je zdaj potrebno drugo taktiko ubrati in videti kaj imajo fantje iz drugega spektra na umu glede orožja. da nas ne bodo dobili s spuščenimi hlačami...

[ggrreo]

Mogoče bo pa tole aktiviralo še koga, da naredi kaj za našo dejavnost:  
https://basc.org.uk/basc-scotland/airgun...questions/

[ZirC]

Vicky Ford, FB update:

I thought it would be helpful to provide a detailed update on the Firearms Directive.
European laws on firearms have been in place since 1991. Certain weaknesses and failings of the existing Directive came to light in the aftermath of recent terrorist attacks. Last November the Commission proposed a revision, however the reforms were not balanced or workable for the legitimate gun holder. There was no majority in the Parliament committee to reject outright the Commission proposals. Therefore the Parliament has been going through an amendment process which I have been leading as rapporteur. There is now an agreement in principle on key elements.
Background

The Directive sets out the conditions under which private persons may lawfully acquire and possess guns or transfer them to another EU country. The Directive also sets requirements for marking and keeping and sharing of registers.
Firearm types are defined as Category A,B or C. Category A firearms are prohibited except for certain types of individuals, Category B firearms need an “authorisation”, and owners of Category C firearms need to declare their ownership but do not need authorisation.
Salute and Acoustic Firearms

The previous treatment of so called “salute and acoustic firearms” raised security concerns. These are working firearms converted to fire blanks. Under the existing Directive in certain countries these could be sold without authorisations and some were easily re-converted to live firearms. This type of firearm was used in Paris terrorist attacks. A cache of over 30 were discovered in the UK in 2015. 
The rules covering these firearms will now be tightened. Going forward any firearm which has been converted to fire blanks must remain licensed under the same rules as its original live-firing version.

Deactivated Firearms
In order to strengthen deactivation regimes, the European Commission introduced a new Deactivation Regulation which came into force in April 2016. This sets a single standard for deactivation of firearms. However technical implementation issues have arisen and some countries are concerned that the new standard is less secure than their previous national regime. Following pressure from the Parliament, the European Commission has now re-convened a Working Group of Experts from the European Member States to review the Regulation. The Commission has committed that a revision will be completed by early 2017.
Introduction of the Deac-Reg caused problems for legitimate holders of deactivated firearms such as historical re-enactors and those involved in film making etc, as it prohibits them from selling or transferring across borders any items deactivated prior to April 2016 unless the items are re-deactivated to the new standard, which is not technically possible in many cases. Following pressure from the Parliament there will now be a process to assess national standards in use prior to April 2016. If the standards are accepted by the Working Group and Commission as “equivalent” then items deactivated to that previous regime will be able to be bought, sold and transferred without requiring further modification.
The Commission proposed that all deactivated firearms would become subject to the same registration and authorisation procedures as firearms. This was rejected. Instead the negotiations agreed that newly deactivated firearms should be categorised in Category C and need to be declared to national authorities while this would not apply to existing deactivated firearms. 

Category A
The Commission’s original proposal added:
Category A6 “Automatic firearms which have been converted into semi-automatic firearms“ and Category A7 “Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms”
These were both rejected by the Parliament. There is experience that categorising items based on the subjectivity of “resemblance” creates legal uncertainty.

Category A6
The Parliament’s initial committee approach was that “Automatic firearms which have been converted into semi-automatic firearms” should remain in Category B if the conversion was irreversible and be in Category A only if the conversion was reversible. The Parliament proposed that the Commission should develop new technical standards to define which conversions were irreversible. However, the Commission was not prepared to accept responsibility for preparing technical specifications on these conversions.
To reach agreement negotiators representing the majority of the Parliament conceded that automatic firearms converted into semi-automatic firearms should be Category A but added new authorisation procedures so that, at the discretion of the Member State, reservists, target shooters and others with special licences would be permitted to hold these. In addition a grandfathering clause is added so that existing owners can continue to own, transfer, inherit or sell these firearms to others who have appropriate authorisation. Again this is at the discretion of the Member State.

Category A7
Instead of using “resemblance” criteria both Parliament and Council proposed to add to Category A semi-automatic centre-fire firearms when a high-capacity loading device is fitted. Firearms have been categorised depending upon loading capacity already in the current Directive, and the new rules extend this approach. This only affects firearms which use centre-fire and not rimfire percussion ammunition. 
 The categorisation applies when the firearm and magazine is in combination together, and does not depend merely on whether the firearms is capable of having a higher capacity magazine inserted. This has been explained in the text:
“The mere possibility of fitting a loading device with the capacity over 10 rounds for long firearms and 20 rounds for short firearms does not determine the categorization of the firearm.”

Therefore a semi-automatic firearm remains Category B unless the high capacity magazine is fitted.
Following lengthy negotiations, it was agreed that for long firearms exceeding 60 cm a magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds would be restricted, while for a short firearm the limit would be at 20 rounds. This was a major negotiating point for the European Council.
Member States will be able to give authorisations for reservists, target shooters and others with special licences for these firearms. As for those firearms that now fall under Category A6, there is a grandfathering clause.

Status of magazines/ loading devices
Law enforcement authorities in certain countries pressed hard for restrictions on higher capacity magazines. The Council approach was to prohibit their possession but this was rejected by the Parliament as it was considered impractical to enforce. Instead it was agreed that future acquisitions of loading devices will depend upon showing a valid and appropriate license, as is already the case for ammunition, so only those with authorisation to hold category A firearms will be permitted to acquire high capacity magazines.
People who are found in possession of a high capacity magazine after a transition period and who do not have a category A authorisation will risk having their authorisation to hold firearms removed.

Special provisions for ownership
Member states will be able to give Category A authorisations to individuals for the protection of the security of critical infrastructure, commercial shipping, high-value convoys and sensitive premises, as well as for national defence, educational, cultural, research and historical purposes
Museums and collectors: Member states will be able to give Category A authorisations to recognised museums and in exceptional and duly reasoned cases to collectors, subject to strict security measures. The collection of ammunition is permitted.
Target shooters: Member states will be able to give Category A authorisations to target shooters provided the individual is actively practising for or participating in shooting competitions. We have worked closely with the International Practical Shooting Confederation to ensure that the authorisation covers those entering the sport as well as those already competing. The current freedom of choice of equipment used by competitors in their shooting disciplines is not restricted. To facilitate continued participation in international competitions the rules governing the European Firearms Pass will be updated to cover firearms, including Category A firearms, held by such target shooters.

Reservists: Armed forces, the police and the public authorities are outside the scope. The provisions for authorisation for national defence also enables Member States to issue reservists with firearms.
Switzerland: Language is introduced to cover the Swiss system based on general conscription which enables the transfer of military firearms to persons leaving the army. 
 Film industry: Many film productions in Europe use firearms including deactivated firearms, purpose-built blank firing firearms as well as live firearms, usually firing blanks, all depending on the nature of the production. The Commission initial proposals would have jeopardised this but the Parliament text has re-instated the ability for special authorisations for the film industry under strict controls.
Re-enactors: The European Firearms Pass enables legitimate owners to move firearms across borders. This has been updated to assist historical re-enators.
Private modifications 
Hand-loading and reloading of ammunition will remain permitted. Modifications of firearms for private use are also still permitted by private owners and not restricted only to dealers or brokers. 

Medical systems
The existing law states that authorisations are only permitted for those who “are not likely to be a danger to themselves or others”. The Commission suggested that medical tests should been needed for each authorisation and these should be reviewed every five years. However point-in-time medical tests are not necessarily effective. Instead it was agreed that each Member State must have a monitoring system to assess relevant medical and psychological information which they may operate on a continuous or non-continuous basis. Authorisation will be withdrawn if any of the conditions on which it was granted are no longer met, or may be renewed or prolonged if the conditions are still fulfilled. Member States can decide whether or not the assessment involves a prior medical or psychological test. This does not change national approaches or introduce new EU-wide requirements for medical testing.
Marking, Registers and Information Sharing
The current law requires firearms to be marked and registered so that each firearm can be linked to its owner. Law enforcement and Europol noted the risk of sales of parts. Going forward the essential components of a firearm also need to be marked and registered. To avoid risk of confusion the main identifier will be the mark affixed to the frame or receiver. The new marking requirements will not apply to existing firearms. Firearms of historical importance may not need markings depending on national law.

To improve information sharing, dealers and brokers will need to inform national authorities of transfers through electronic means and Member States will share information on firearms held in their country.

Selective fire
The European Commission proposed to reference specific types of firearms and derivations thereof. However the Parliament rejected this approach as it was considered impracticable for the same reasons as “resemblance” based criteria. A clarification has been added in recital 9 that selective fire firearms are treated as Category A which is in accordance with current practice. There are no other references to specific types of firearms anywhere else in the text. 
Firearms designed for military use, which are equipped to operate on the basis of selective fire, such as AK47, M16, where they may be manually adjusted between automatic and semi-automatic firing modes should fall within category A, therefore should not be available for civilians and if converted into semi-automatic firearms should fall within category A6.

Next steps
The provisional deal still needs to be confirmed by the EU member states’ permanent representatives (Coreper) and by Parliament’s Internal Market Committee. This is to happen towards the end of January 2017. The draft directive would then be put to a vote by the full Parliament in a plenary session in 2017 and formally approved by the EU Council of Ministers.

It was proposed that Member States would have 15 months to transpose the new rules into national legislation and 30 months to introduce new systems for sharing of information. Members States may decide to suspend the requirement for declaring deactivated weapons and prior category D firearms for 30 months from the entry into force of the Directive.

Thanks
I would like to thank the many organisations who have assisted with technical advice including International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), The European Federation of Associations for Hunting & Conservation (FACE), The Nordic Hunters’ Alliance, Federation of European Societies of Arms Collectors (FESAC), The Association of European Manufactures of Sporting Firearms, The British Association for Shooting and Conservation, Deactivated Weapons Association, Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association, The Royal Armouries, the Imperial War Museums and the Royal Museum of the Armed Forces and Military History.

[Ales]

Torej če je Švica, je lahko tudi Slovenija izjema in ima recimo lahko vsakdo vojaško orožje...

[mr.T]

Švica ni članica EU samo evropskega skupnega trga in izjema je napisana specfično z njih. Pozabite izjeme v lokalni zakonodaji , izjem se če se le da ne piše v zakone.

[jabolko]

Ovinkov do cilja ,ki ga imajo je kar dosti , na svetu ministrov bodo precej enostano nabrali podporo ki jo rabijo.

Pridobljene pravice ? ah dejte no v Nemčiji je zdaj ilegalno vse orožje, ki ga niso prijavili pa je bilo prej v prosti prodaji nekaj mio kosov, podobno v Avstriji kjer si včasih pump šrotflinto lahko kupil zraven štruce kruha zdaj vse regulirano etc. pa tudi drugače, če ne bi bil interes prepoved potem ne bi sili v A kategorijo . Kot je omenil Kristian ,je čisto logično ,da bi potem za A7 imeli isti standard kot zibratelji(tehnično varovan prostor hrambe ,pa inšpekcijske obiske) ,v glavnem načinov kako te spravit ob veselje je zadost, da ne rabijo neposredno ravno pobrat B7.


Je pa pri B1 očitno dosti $$$$ kapnilo za lobiranje saj omejitev na 20strelni nabojnike sploh ni omejitev saj ga nobena pištola nima standard, pri 10 za puško pa je obratno saj skoraj ni 10 strelnih magazinov za Ar15,10,AK,Vzje
Upam ,da se Firearms united malce pohvali z sponzorju tako, da se ve čigavih krepel ni za kupovat ker jim je škoda par centov za tak namen.

ima ima 20 standard...

---

Ovinkov do cilja ,ki ga imajo je kar dosti , na svetu ministrov bodo precej enostano nabrali podporo ki jo rabijo.

Pridobljene pravice ? ah dejte no v Nemčiji je zdaj ilegalno vse orožje, ki ga niso prijavili pa je bilo prej v prosti prodaji nekaj mio kosov, podobno v Avstriji kjer si včasih pump šrotflinto lahko kupil zraven štruce kruha zdaj vse regulirano etc. pa tudi drugače, če ne bi bil interes prepoved potem ne bi sili v A kategorijo . Kot je omenil Kristian ,je čisto logično ,da bi potem za A7 imeli isti standard kot zibratelji(tehnično varovan prostor hrambe ,pa inšpekcijske obiske) ,v glavnem načinov kako te spravit ob veselje je zadost, da ne rabijo neposredno ravno pobrat B7.


Je pa pri B1 očitno dosti $$$$ kapnilo za lobiranje saj omejitev na 20strelni nabojnike sploh ni omejitev saj ga nobena pištola nima standard, pri 10 za puško pa je obratno saj skoraj ni 10 strelnih magazinov za Ar15,10,AK,Vzje
Upam ,da se Firearms united malce pohvali z sponzorju tako, da se ve čigavih krepel ni za kupovat ker jim je škoda par centov za tak namen.

ima ima 20 standard...